Testing Mind Map Series: How to Think Like a CRO Pro (Part 33)

Interview with Ryan Webb

Meet Ryan Webb, a true trailblazer in the world of conversion optimization.

With nearly two decades of experience, Ryan takes a data-driven, research-backed approach to identify the most impactful ways to persuade visitors to take action.

He challenges traditional notions of optimization by emphasizing the importance of understanding the psyche of your target audience, differentiating your value proposition, and fixing any broken journeys before attempting to optimize.

And here’s the kicker – Ryan suggests that sometimes a lower conversion rate may actually be better for your business in the long run.

Join us in our thought-provoking interview with Ryan and discover a fresh perspective on optimization.

Ryan, tell us about yourself.

How many years have you been optimizing for?

I know I don’t look old enough, but 17 years!

In 2006 I set up a web development team within a Digital Marketing Agency. The Agency managed a lot of paid digital advertising for clients and it was completely natural for us to try to improve the experience of the advertising traffic. From day 1 of the team being set up we were doing landing page testing. Back then we called what we were doing “Conversion Marketing” and we tried to get it to catch on, but C.R.O had already started to get traction :-(.

What inspired you to get into testing & optimization?

Outside influences were (and still are!) people like Chris Goward, Bryan Eisenberg and Avinash Kaushik. The stuff they talked and wrote about really interested me and made me want to learn and do more.

Internally, testing & optimisation was just a smart thing to do as part of designing and building websites. We wanted to be able to charge clients ongoing fees by continually improving their website, this was the obvious way to do it.

The reason I moved fully into testing & optimisation was because after a few years, I realised that I much preferred the fun of running landing page tests compared to the pressure of managing large, complex, expensive website projects!!

What’s the one resource you recommend to aspiring testers & optimizers?

So many amazing free digital resources to choose from (CXL, Baymard, NN Group etc.), so instead I’m going to go for a classic book: Chris Goward’s “You Should Test That”. First out in 2011, but still a brilliant entry level book into the world of website optimisation.

Answer in 5 words or less: What is the discipline of optimization to you?

Objective research making websites better.

What are the top 3 things people MUST understand before they start optimizing?

1. Target Audience (motivations and needs)
2. Value Proposition (what makes you different from your competitors)
3. Fix First (there’s no point in optimising before you fix any broken journeys)

How do you treat qualitative & quantitative data to remove bias?

Can you really remove bias?! I think a bigger problem would be to believe that you can actually remove it.

In my view, it would be better to expect bias to be present. But of course, take steps to reduce it (follow your quant and qual processes, work as a team not on your own & try to remain as objective as possible) and be really tough on yourself when you pull your test hypotheses together (make sure they’re grounded in the evidence you uncovered, not your gut feel!).

What is the most annoying optimization myth you wish would go away?

That it’s all about the Conversion Rate.

If I could, I would prevent anyone from using the term “Conversion Rate Optimisation” or CRO (and anyone who pronounces it “CROW” can leave the room now :-)). Conversion Optimisation or Experimentation are much more helpful terms. Focusing on the Conversion Rate is fine, but only if the tester understands they also need to consider implications on revenue, lead quality, Lifetime Value etc.

Understand that sometimes a lower Conversion Rate is better.

Thank you for joining us for this exclusive interview with Ryan. We hope you’ve learned some valuable insights from his experiences and advice, and we encourage you to implement them in your optimization efforts.

Check back twice a month for upcoming interviews! And if you haven’t already, check out our past interviews with CRO legends Gursimran Gujral, Haley Carpenter, Rishi Rawat, Sina Fak, Eden Bidani, Jakub Linowski, Shiva Manjunath, Deborah O’Malley, Andra Baragan, Rich Page, Ruben de Boer, Abi Hough, Alex Birkett, John Ostrowski, Ryan Levander, Ryan Thomas, Bhavik Patel, Siobhan Solberg, Tim Mehta, Rommil Santiago, Steph Le Prevost, Nils Koppelmann, Danielle Schwolow, Kevin Szpak, Marianne Stjernvall, Christoph Böcker, Max Bradley, Samuel Hess, Riccardo Vandra, Lukas Petrauskas, Gabriela Florea, and our latest with Sean Clanchy.